TOWN OF ESOPUS
PLANNING BOARD MEETING
NOVEMBER 19, 2008
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Roxanne Pecora, Chairperson
BOARD MEMBERS EXCUSED: Fred Zimmer
ALSO PRESENT: Myles Putman, M.L. Putman Consulting
Chairperson Pecora called the meeting of the Town of Esopus Planning Board to order at 7:05 PM beginning with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Roxanne then advised the public of the building's fire exits and roll call was taken.
Board members were asked if there were any changes or corrections to the minutes of the October 23, 2008 meeting.
CHUCK MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 23, 2008 MEETING, SECONDED BY MIKE S. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED WITH A VOTE OF 4-0.
M. L. Putman Consulting (Month of October)…………………………………$2,250.00
Daily Freeman (Schroeter Public Hearing)……………………………………..$ 10.35
April Oneto (Secretarial Services)……………….……………………………39 ½ hours
MIKE S. MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VOUCHERS AS READ, SECONDED BY MIKE M. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED WITH A VOTE OF 4-0.
SCHROETER: Case #2008-20 - Lot Line Adjustment - 85 Soper Road, West
Esopus; SBL: 71.001-4-28.11, 28.12, 28.2 & 29
Todd Schroeter, applicant, and Kelly Anson, Engineer, were present to represent this application. Myles Putman reviewed M.L. Putman Consulting Review dated 11/10/08.
Myles stated that Planning Board is still waiting for County Health Department approval and a final approval from DEC on the wetland crossing. Kelly Anson stated that they have Health Department approval and submitted two signed maps from the Health Department for the file.
MIKE M. MADE A MOTION TO DECLARE A NEGATIVE DECLARATION PURSUANE TO SEQR FOR SCHROETER, CASE #2008-20, SECONDED BY MIKE S. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED 4-0. VOTE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
MIKE M. MADE A MOTION TO GRANT FINAL PLAT APPROVAL UNDER SECTION 107.16.A OF THE SUBDIVISION LOCAL LAW FOR SCHROETER, LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT, CASE #2008-20, SUJECT TO RESOLUTION OF THE DEC WETLANDS ISSUE AND SUBMISSION OF 6 PAPER COPIES AND ONE MYLAR ALL SIGNED BY THE LANDOWNERS, SECONDED BY CHUCK. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED 4-0. VOTE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
PERCIVALLE: Case #2008-15 - Major re-subdivision - 45 Hudson lane, Ulster
Park; SBL 64.003-5-2.32
Ed Pine, engineer and Joseph Percivalle were present representing this application. Myles reviewed M.L. Putman Consulting Review dated 11.12.08, copy given to applicant and copy placed in the file.
Mr. Pine stated that the owner really needs to receive some kind of answer regarding whether he is able to get five lots out of this parcel of land for his financing. They have an appointment for next week with the Health Department and he does not see any problems with this.
Chuck questioned on the map we are looking at the five lots would be Lot #3 - Lot #7. Applicant stated that this is correct. Mike M. questioned the driveway grades. Driveway grades were submitted last month and they are all within the 12% grade. Mike M. questioned if Myles felt that we had enough information for Sketch Plan Approval. Myles felt that we did. Mike S. stated that lot #3 and lot #4 are crazy shapes. Myles stated that it is a weird configuration but he does not see anything that looks like it is violating any design standard. Mr. Pine stated that the biggest issue with lot #3 was due to the roadway itself in order to cut across the contours and maintain the grade.
CHUCK MADE A MOTION TO GRANT SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL FOR PERCIVALLE, CASE #2008-15 CONTINGENT UPON THE DOCUMENTATION ISSUES BEING ADDRESSED DURING PRELIMINARY PLAT REVIEW, SECONDED BY MIKE S. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED 4-0. VOTE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
FERGUSON (Hudson Valley School of Massage Therapy): Case #2008-18 -
Conditional Use Permit - 1723 Broadway (US Route 9W; State
Hwy 5508), West Park; SBL: 80.001-3-23
Applicant Maria Ferguson present along with her engineer John Freeman. Myles reviewed M.L. Putman Consulting Review dated 11/15/08, copy given to applicant and copy placed in file.
Mr. Freeman stated that the lighting fixtures are standard fixtures that they use all of the time. He will provide cut sheets for the lighting. Mike M. asked if the slope dropping off drastically to the river is the lighting going to be compromised because of this. Mr. Freeman did not have an answer at this time. Mike M. asked if this application needed to be referred across the river. He was told that it there would be a courtesy referral to the Town of Hyde Park for comments and concerns. Applicant received their zoning variance from the ZBA. There has been a substantial reduction in the number of parking spaces to 79 which is still above the 61 spaces which the Building Inspector determined was the minimum.
Roxanne asked applicant if they could provide what would be required in terms of erosion, lighting and landscaping changes in time for referral to the County Planning Board next month. The cut-off date for the Ulster County Planning Board will be 11/25/08. Mr. Freeman stated that they would be able to do this.
Roxanne stated that there are some personal issues going on with this application. She feels that Ms. Ferguson has worked very well with this Board and she would like to welcome this business into the Town. Roxanne stated that she is willing to send this to the County for their comments. Myles stated that the erosion control information seems to be complete so we would need information regarding the lighting and he would urge additional landscaping. We received a letter from NYSDOT regarding the access. There will be one entrance and the other entrance will be removed and landscaping will be completed in that area. They will remove the circular driveway and clear the site distances which will be 14'4" from the fog lines. Mr. Freeman stated that the pillars will have to go.
Myles reviewed the landscaping issues with Mr. Freeman. Myles stated that they have to get the disturbance limits to match up and agree with each other. Chuck questioned the area to the lower right of the cottage where they are pushing all of the dirt. He asked if it is proposed for additional parking if they need it. He is wondering if that should not be identified as such and he was asking if they are planning on pushing the dirt there before they do the parking and if they need it then they will do it. John stated that they are pushing it there now and they will revegitate it and if in the future the project is expanded they will come back before this Board and go through the process again for additional parking. ZBA approved the sketch plans as it was and if they needed to make any changes they would have to come back for another phase. They removed the second phase and modified the drawing to show just one phase. John stated that all the dirt that is being pushed and stockpiled is within the footprint so they will not have to go back before the ZBA but they will have to come back before the Planning Board for approval if they do additional parking. Discussion took place regarding the location of the additional parking. Chuck felt that if they were going to move all of that dirt he would prefer to see them develop that area and stay further away from Route 9W. There was some concern regarding the number of trees that would have to be removed. Mike M. stated that his feeling is that this is a reasonable compromise and apparently this was the ZBA's opinion as well. Roxanne stated that if this is what they want to do now she feels that it is fine and the other is in the future. We need to deal with what is in front of this Board at this time. She would not even identify it as future parking at this time. Chuck questioned if they had cut and fill equal and Mr. Freeman stated that they do.
Mike S. expressed concerns regarding the retention basin and his concern that the parking will be exposed from across the river. He felt that it was the ideal reason for the parking to be on the other side because the woods shielded the parking. He feels that they are now creating a hole in the woods with the retention basin. John stated that it is a depression 2' deep. Mike S. stated that it is all woods now but you will have to take the trees out of that area. John stated that there are trees all around it and it is still protected from the river. Chuck stated considering putting the basin down at the end of the view shed so you don't take any more trees down. John stated that the area is a reserve area for the septic. Following further discussion Roxanne asked applicant if they could do a simulation drawing of before and after or does the Board need to meet on the property once again to review what is being discussed. John stated that they are not able to do this.
Maria Ferguson stated that originally when they appeared before this Board everyone wanted the parking in the back but she wanted to keep the integrity of the property, the beauty of the property, the trees and she wants to be compliant as well. After visiting the site this has changed. Roxanne stated that there is no way that this Board would tell the applicant now that there should be parking in the back because this is a beautiful piece of property with a beautiful view of the Vanderbilt Mansion. She stated that what John is explaining to the Board and what he is telling her has never been that they are going to rip all of the trees down on the side of the property so that when you are on the river you are going to see this huge empty space on the property. The only place that the trees will be coming out will be in the parking lot on the top and where the cars are going to be. Mike S. expressed his concerns that it looks like more than that. Mike M. stated that we may need to come down and look again. Mike feels that Chuck is doubting that it will not have a negative effect on that because there will be such a wide open area and because it is hilly and you expect to see trees and now there is a hole in it. If this is not the case, then we need to go down and look at the site again. Chuck stated that he is in support of the application but he wants to see it the best that it can be and he feels that it is on be reflected on the site plan the way that it is being presented tonight. He feels that it looks like from half way down on the north side all the way up to Route 9W the trees are removed. He stated that you can not push dirt and not remove trees any place on the site plan. Chuck said that he would put the pond in the area that is already cut. John stated that they have to put a new septic system in and it has to have a 200' setback from the well and they need a 100' separation from the pond. Where the pond is located it treats the driveways most efficiently and it has been sized so that it will infiltrate the entire water quality volume. The one year storm is completely infiltrated and the ten year storm is probably 90% infiltrated. The pond is the infiltration basin.
Roxanne stated that they still need to work on this but the Board will need to make another site visit to settle this issue but it does not stop this Board from doing a sketch plan approval, referring this and scheduling a Public Hearing at this time. Mike S. asked if sketch plan approval means that we are satisfied with the infiltration basin location. Roxanne stated that it is her understanding that sketch plan approval is saying that we think that this plan is doable and they can proceed to preliminary and give us all the details that are required. Chuck questioned if we have to grant sketch plan approval before referring to the Ulster County Planning Board. Roxanne stated that we should. He stated that he does not mind referring it to them and incorporated their review into our sketch approval. Mike M. stated that if the County supports Chuck's position and if in fact the County does that the only way we could override that would be at another meeting so that we have not cut ourselves off.
Roxanne stated that she wants to see this application move forward and that she wants to see commercial in this Town. She stated that the applicant knows that the cut-off is December 4th and they will need to submit everything by that date. She wants to see a Public Hearing scheduled. This applicant is going through some personal issues with the owner of this property that she is in contract to purchase from. Ms. Ferguson stated that she does not mind sharing the details regarding this application. She has a letter from the attorneys and this is it and if she does not have a Public Hearing by December she will not be able to purchase the property.
A copy of the letter was submitted to this Board for the file. Mike M. asked if there was anything that we could do that would protect Chuck's concerns. Roxanne stated that the Public Hearing can be scheduled subject to the prints being done. It does not mean that we have to give approval. We can give approval subject to conditions as well. Mike S. stated that as long as we are not locked into the infiltration basin being in that location if we approve sketch plan that it needs to be relocated and we need to preserve those woods some how. We are cutting down a lot of trees on the river bank. He feels comfortable approving sketch plan with the caveat that this needs to change. Myles stated that sketch plan is basically this Board saying to go ahead and start working on the details. It does not give the applicant a vested interest to build according to sketch plan. It is just a way of moving this along to a hearing and to make your referrals. The idea is that the Board can continue to ask the applicant to consider design changes. Chuck stated that he supports commercial business in this Town.
MIKE M. MADE A MOTION TO GRANT SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL FOR FERGUSON, CASE #2008-18 AND REFER THIS APPLICATION TO THE ULSTER COUNTY PLANNING BOARD AND WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD AND SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR DECEMBER 17, 2008 AT 7:10 PM, WITH THE PRINTS DATED 11/5/ 08 BEING SUFFICIENT FOR THE REFERRAL AND THE ENGINEER WILL WORK TO PROVIDE REVISED PRINTS THAT INCLUDE THE ISSUES OUTLINED (FULL CUT OFF LIGHTING, ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING, THE ISSUE WITH THE DETENTION BASIN AND THE LIMITS OF DISTURBANCE NEED TO BE CONSITENT ON THE MAPS). IF APPLICANT CAN NOT PROVIDE THIS BY 11/25/08, THEY WILL BE SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE REFERRAL AND IF NOT THE BOARD WILL EXPECT THEM ON OUR NEXT DEADLINE CUTOFF OF 12/4/08, SECONDED BY ROXANNE. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION WAS PASSED WITH A VOTE OF 4-0. VOTE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
Mr. Freman stated that Ms. Ferguson is in contract to purchase this property but it is subject to Planning Board approval and her mortgage is contingent upon that. The contract runs out the end of December. She has a 30 day grace and the owner will not go beyond that. She at least needs a conditional approval no later than January. They can still be working with the Board and it can be conditioned upon them satisfying the Board on certain issues. Mike S. will scan the copy of the letter the applicant submitted and it will be sent to all Board members and a copy will be printed out for the file.
Following further discussion it was agreed that the Board members will meet on 11/22/08 at 10:00 a.m. at the site.
BIRCHES: Case #2008-23 - Site Plan Amendment - Sorbello Avenue &
Hildebrandt lane, Town of Esopus; SBL:
Roxanne stated that this applicant was issued a Stop Work Order dated 10/22/08. this project is in violation of work without site plan approval and it is in violation of 123.47.A 1&2. The items in violation are a 16 car parking lot addition and access road behind buildings 2 and 3 at the request of the fire department. The parking lot is also something the fire department requested. There were questions raised regarding the sewer pump which is 4' below what was in the approved plans. On 10/30/08, Pete Lilholt, Clough Harobur Associates met with Scott David, Peak Engineering, who is now the engineer for Birches. There have been discussions between Scott Davis and Pete Lilholt again on 11/12/08. Scott was working to prepare a formal submission to the Planning Board for 12/4/08. At this point, we have not received new engineering prints for this evening but we have a letter from the Port Ewen Fire Department and a letter from Don Kiernan, Port Ewen Water & Sewer Superintendent indicating that he is okay with the new location of the pump. Scott Davis has addressed in a letter the elevation of the pump chamber, he has addressed stormwater management report amendment and we have the application. Roxanne spoke with Pete Lilholt and asked him if he could to put together a letter based on his discussion with Scott regarding the items they have gone over and what Scott needs to do. Roxanne stated that they are in agreement with the items that have to be completed to prepare a formal site plan amendment print. Steve Aaron stated that the parking lot insert was submitted this evening and it is in the stormwater packet.
Roxanne stated that the applicant did not have to do any of the additional. The Fire Department had their opportunity to speak regarding this application prior to approval of the project. They have been on site and indicated the changes they would like to see and Steve Aaron was willing to accommodate them and in addition to this he felt that he needed additional parking for visitors who come to the site. Steve stated that they have 16 apartments and they have 16 parking spaces and since everyone has a car it is pretty obvious at this point that if everyone is parked and a visitor comes they will use the fire lane for parking even though it is marked fire lane and the last thing they want is parking on the street.
Mike M. stated that no one is saying that this may or may not make sense but you have doubled the number of parking spaces from 16 to 32. Steve Aaron stated that it also provides better handicapped accessibility. There were two handicapped spots and anyone living on the most western portion of building three would have quite a walk. Steve stated that even if they may every spot in the parking lot 1 handicapped it still creates a hardship to get to the other side.
Mike M. stated that he sees two issues. One being the logic of doing this because the fire department wants it and because of the handicapped issues and the second is the problem with changing engineers and not changing what we agreed to on the original plan. Mike stated that it may seem like a small issue but it bothers him. Steve respectfully stated that we do not want to take it out on the tenants. He further stated that there were a lot of things done at the last minutes to get everyone to sign off including the fire department. There were things that no matter how well they planned they were missed and adequate parking even though it may be within the code was not adequate parking. Mike M. stated that it is his concern as to whether it affects other things like run off since there is more impervious surfaces. Myles and Roxanne stated that this has been addressed by the engineers and Pete Lilholts feels comfortable with it.
Roxanne stated that it is not like we did not expect some changes it is just that because these changes are considered major changes it triggers a Site Plan Amendment and a referral to the Ulster County Planning Board and Waterfront Advisory Board and a public hearing is the option of the Board. Roxanne stated that Pete Lilholt does not have a full set of plans and what he submitted was from his discussions with Scott and what Scott provided him with so that Scott could prepare a formal submittal. Roxanne stated that she spoke with Scott his afternoon and he is comfortable with what he has to do. Roxanne stated that Item #11.c. from Pete Lilholts letter has changed. The pond will still be there. Steve Aaron is not planning on turning the access area to the pump station over to the Town. They will give us a right-of-way so that the Town can reach the pump station for maintenance. They will hold on to that section of the road and maintain it themselves.
Steve stated that regarding the pump station, they have met with Don and he is able to get into the pump and Don Kiernan has provided a letter to this Board stating that he is comfortable with the sewer pump station as it is.
Mike M. reviewed what he feels is the plan. There were some changes made and the changes did not go through the process in a timely fashion so Tim did a Stop Work Order and that makes sense. Now we are saying that he was correct in what he did but the changes look like they make sense but we still have to go through the Board approval process as an amendment.
Mike S. asked if there is a reason that this would need to go to a Public Hearing. There are no additional trees being taken down, no additional site disturbances and the area in question has already been regarded. Following some discussion the Board did not see a reason for a public hearing.
MIKE S. MADE A MOTION TO GRANT SKETCH PLAN APPROVAL FOR BIRCHES, CASE #2008-23, SUBJECT TO SUBMISSION OF A FORMAL AMENDED SITE PLAN AND TO REFERRAL OF THIS APPLICATION TO CLOUGH HARBOUR FOR REVIEW AND IT NEEDS TO MEET WITH THEIR SATISFACTION AS WELL AS A REFERRAL TO THE ULSTER COUNTY PLANNING BOARD AND THE WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD FOR REVIEW AND COMMENTS, SECONDED BY MIKE M. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MOTION PASSED WITH A VOTE OF 4-0. VOTE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
Stewarts: Requires a variance to Section 123.20 area bulk requirements. Following review and discussion the Planning Board is in support of this variance and would encourage approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Ulster County Planning Board will be holding a seminar in December and anyone who attends will receive 2 hours of Educational Credit. Roxanne stated that under the Ulster County Charter all subdivisions 5 lots or more will be reviewed at the County level. There is a referral guide now that will specifically state what needs to accompany all applications. They will require 12 days prior submittal so those of us who meet on the 4th Thursday will have a problem. Anything that is going to require a referral we may need to meet on the 3rd Wednesday.
Next Pre-submission will take place at the new Town Hall. Next Planning Board Meeting will be at the new Town Hall.
MIKE M. MADE A MOTION TO ADJOURN, SEONDED BY MIKE S. ALL MEMBERS WERE IN FAVOR. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:00 PM.
NEXT MONTHLY MEETING: DECEMBER 17, 2008
DEADLINE DATE: DECEMBER 4, 2008
NEXT PRE-SUBMISSION: DECEMBER 4, 2008
Planning Board Secretary