Town of Esopus Zoning Board of Appeals
May 15, 2007
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairman Don Cole. The Pledge to the Flag followed.
ROLL CALL
Present: Vic Barranca, Don Cole, Rob Hare, Kathy Kiernan and Karl Wick.
Absent: Joe Guido and Catherine Charuk
Also present: Dennis Suraci and Darin DeKoskie from the Planning Board.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
VIC BARRANCA MADE OF MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN. ROB HARE SECONDED. ALL PRESENT VOTED IN FAVOR.
APPROVAL OF VOUCHERS
Vouchers for secretarial work were submitted. KARL WICK MADE OF MOTION TO APPROVE THE VOUCHERS. ROB HARE SECONDED. ALL PRESENT VOTED IN FAVOR.
DECISIONAL MEETING
VANHEUSEN, JANET Case # 03-21-06-01
Don Cole stated that he was going to have someone come here tonight Janet VanHeusen. Don Cole wanted to grant 30 more days to get that trailer out of there. Any objection to that? Rob Hare stated 30 days and no more than 30 days.
DON COLE MADE A MOTION TO GRANT 30 MORE DAYS TO REMOVE THE TRAILER, ROB HARE SECONDED. ALL PRESENT VOTED IN FAVOR.
Blue Stone Realty extended because no one here yet.
ELSEY, CHARLENE Case # 02-20-07-02
Don Cole stated that she has the trailer down on Gurney Street. She no longer wants to do that. I would like to make a motion that we turn this down. Rather then have this thing come up and keep coming up I want to make a motion to deny the Variance for set back requirements.
Is there a letter on file? Don Cole yes, just refers to her request to build a house there. She told me personally that she wants to withdraw. Since she is not here, I want to disapprove what she was here for. All right?
VIC BARRANCA MADE A MOTION THAT WE DISAPPROVE THIS VARIANCE, KARL WICK SECONDED. ALL PRESENT VOTED IN FAVOR.
BLUE STONE REALTY Case # 10-12-06-02
Don Cole: We pretty much went over what he was here for, putting a certain amount of square footage on the property. Right, isn’t that what you wanted to do, you wanted to put a Dunkin Donut and a Dollar Store on the property. We are going to make an approval, so we are not going to thru a whole lot of stuff.
Andrew Wright: Basically, we have 13,270 square feet. It is a two acre lot. There is a series of variances requested, actually a residential overlay. Basically there is a lot of additional information that was a result of the Planning Board meeting. I apologize that in April I was tied up.
Don Cole: OK.
Dennis Suraci: representing the Planning Board. This was the first time at our last meeting that this came back in front of us and I think that there was a miscommunication. We have not seen this since the first time that they applied for site plan review. They pulled the application before it got in front of us. The next time we saw it was when you guys were ready to vote. This site is really not finalized. The Planning Board is very much against what they are proposing and would like to see some other efforts put toward redesign. We made a comment at the last Planning Board and I don’t know if they got back to the owner?
Andrew Wright: They did.
Dennis Suraci: and we are a little concerned that you guys are going to approve something that isn’t finalized yet, and maybe grant variances that would not be used for.
Don Cole: There were only two Variances, one was a set back in the back and the other was the use of the …….
Dennis Suraci: ….the site plan has not even been before us other than the last meeting ….
Don Cole: Well, what is before you and was sent to us by the Building Inspector
Dennis Suraci: No, we got last time one for the first time
Don Cole: It was back in 2006
Dennis Suraci: No, they pulled it, they never came, they came before us and before they got up they pulled the application. So, we never got to see it.
Don Cole: OK
Dennis Suraci: So the first time we saw it was last month, you people have been working on this, and the Zoning Board is almost like doing what the Planning Board. So, we have to come here and ask you to bump it back to us before you vote on it so you are voting on the right variances.
Don Cole: Well, the thing that is before us is the use the square footage of use of the property. That is what was sent to us by the Building Inspector. Darin was right here, he was involved with the whole thing.
Darin DeKoskie: I also have a couple of set-back issues on the property. And our Board feels that possible with some changes to the site design – what we understand kind of an on going process with the Zoning Board probably should have went hand and hand with the Planning Board and the Zoning Board …..
Don Cole: I thought it was always there
Dennis Suraci: No it wasn’t.
Don Cole: Because it was somebody else involved that was not the owner.
Dennis Suraci or Darin DeKoskie Yes, North Engineering
on Cole: Yes. Just so you understand, we had people at our public hearing that were complaining about the building there. So we were discussing with the people in the neighborhood that had a reason of not liking the looks of the building or whatever it was, and we were just discussing it so that when it went to you, it would go to you, so the neighborhood that were complaining about it would have no problem with it we are not making any decisions on it.
Dennis Suraci: Well, you may grant a variance tonight which may not be….
Don Cole: Not on the building, only square footage.
Dennis Suraci: Don, listen to what I am saying, if you grant variances on set backs and you grant them for things that are not on the site plan when they have final site plan they are going to have to come back to you. So why don’t you let him get the site plan straightened out?
Don Cole: Are you going to be able to take care of that in an expedient way?
Dennis Suraci: We would have taken care of it the other night, but we saw it for the first time.
Don Cole: He was not there though.
Dennis Suraci: No his representative was there
Don Cole: Okay, when can he get there?
Andrew Wright: I assume I am on your agenda?
Dennis Suraci: Did you reapply?
Andrew Wright: Yes with all the information. April hasn’t called me.
Dennis Suraci: Then you should be on the next agenda.
Andrew Wright: You know, Roxanne, was here on the evening when the Zoning Board was ready to accept……. She knows.
As I understand …..….two story building which is economical unfeasible
Dennis Suraci: Let me explain what happened
Andrew Wright: I would like to discuss it.
Dennis Suraci: Yes, one of the things that we suggested because your proposal infiltrated …..from what Darrin said …….storm water drainage that they are not really committed now and we thought that if we could give you more land to put a retention pond on it by creating a two story building it would grant more site work, get less coverage.
Andrew Wright: What is the cost difference between a two-story building and a one, almost double?
Andrew Wright and Dennis Suraci talking over each other, cannot understand.
Dennis Suraci: I understand that but if it is not going to give us the site plan and give us the information and the things that you need to make that site work then ……….
Don Cole: This is what happens all the time you guys come along and say go look at another site. That is very easy for you so say. No, no you listen to me now. Go look at another site take your money and take it somewhere else. Is that the attitude?
Dennis Suraci: If you are going to represent the Board then listen to what the Planning Board is suggesting.
Dennis Suraci and Don Cole had a discussion regarding Planning Board and Zoning Boards and the long process applicants seem to have to go through.
Don Cole: I have no problem with them going before the Planning Board provided the Planning Board moves in an orderly and speedy manner. I have been on the Zoning Board longer then you have been on the Planning Board (speaking to Suraci) and I have seen the Planning Board go five years to get the car wash down there.
Dennis Suraci: What brought this up?
Don Cole: We are talking about the process the Planning Board goes through
Andrew Wright: There has been a lot of work that has been put in the project. The reason that I have replaced North Engineer as the applicant, and I am the owner, I did a lot of …….
it became economical unfeasible to do it. The drainage system is very expensive because a big issue in this town is ………….and so I have spent upwardly up to
$ 20,000 to make it work, also it works with the neighbors to make sure that I can catch his water, our water and get common sewer …….and if and when …….and I can work with the neighbors.
Dennis Suraci: And all we are asking is that you come to the Planning Board with this before you get your Variances.
Andrew Wright: I had four extra …………..just for the Planning Board after last night show we grade, show we light, show me……….
Dennis Suraci talking over A. Wright….again asking them to wait before granting you a variance.
Andrew Wright: I am here because I missed the April meeting, it was my fault, I had the wrong day again I have only myself to blame. Again, we have gone through a lot, we have talked to the neighbors, we talked to the people, the reality, I have and the reason for the Variance, you have got to understand, I cannot do this footage and if I cannot do it this way, and you know the cost I have put into it, I built theses ………it is not going to work. In which case I will say, I had it, and I will give it to my kids and they can develop it years from now. It is just not working.
Dennis Suraci: You don’t go to Zoning Board for a Variance before you go to site plan. You have to go to site plan first.
Kathy Kiernan: Dennis can I as you a question? Our process is the we get referrals from the Planning Board and also the Building Inspector, and this is where this came from.
Dennis Suraci: The Building Inspector sent him to you.
Kathy Kiernan: That is right
People talking over each other.
Dennis Suraci: The Zoning Board should say have you had your site plan reviewed by the Planning Board, you do site plan development without them coming to the Planning Board.
Kathy Kiernan: We are just voting on what the Building Inspector denied.
Rob Hare: Our objective is, not to do site plan review, we were dealing with set backs and square footage on an existing lot where he was hoping for more square footage. That was all we were dealing with. My personal feeling is the Planning and Zoning is Esopus is tied in knots because we don’t have somebody full time who can help people through these issues and really say, you go to the Planning Board you can have these issues, you go to the Zoning Board and you are going to have these issues before they start coming down the road.
Dennis Suraci: There is someone available now, a couple of hours every week and that is Miles Putman. He has been hired by the Planning Board to be in here one day of week in the morning and he comes, and he comes and meets with the applicant he meets with a lot of applicants. This is just a miscommunication and all I am asking you ……
Andrew Wright: Miles has been involved in it, I have been talking to Miles. But Shuster gave the first objection and Myles took it over and I have been dealing with Dan, I know Dan for years, and he says Myles has to go over this and I called Myles, came in, sat down, and we addressed it. But we have always tried, and tried very hard ………
Dennis Suraci and Andrew Wright talk over each other.
Dennis Suraci: Have you been in front of the Planning Board? Last month, for the first time, after everything was developed.
Andrew Wright: But wait a minute, I am going through the procedure as possible. If I am doing the procedure wrong then I go back to Mike North and I talked to him about why he went through the wrong procedure. Because he made me spend a lot of money to bring this to this point where I cannot not do it and them came myself …………and people say what are you doing, are you going back, I say yeah I am going to go back and say what are you issues, what are your issues, and that means going to the Town and dealing with the issues, the most important thing is storm water and I said you know what, I can make it work. I am going to make it work Even if I had to raise the bar and the number of square feet that I have available. .
Dennis Suraci: Says something I could not understand.
Andres Wright: You want to go two stories, I have to put an elevator, I have got to put stairs, $150 per foot.
Dennis and Andrew speaking can’t understand.
Andrew Wright: This is what I do for a living.
Dennis Suraci: I know.
Don Cole: Alright, what I am going to do is not going to make any decision tonight on the Variance that are before us. The Building Inspector is not around. Is that agreeable with you to go to them and go over what ever has to be done.
The Building Inspector, he is the one who came to me with the reason of site plan and square footage. The Building Inspector gave us that, not the Planning Board. Set back and square footage on the property and they were only going to 13% of use of the property. We were not giving him an approval to build the only thing we were trying to do was satisfy the people that came in in the neighborhood to try to put together a building so that when they went to you it would all be done.
Dennis Suraci: But if he came to us and we said you missed this or you missed that you need to do this, need to that,
Don Cole: It was a screw up with North.
Dennis Suraci: Absolutely.
Don Cole: And all I tried to do at public hearings was settle the problem.
Dennis Suraci: And he may have to go through a public hearing with the Planning Board.
Darin DeKoskie: What should have happened, Don, was perhaps the applicant should have currently went to the Planning Board and Zoning Board at the same time.
Don Cole: I thought it was already being done. We are not going to vote on it tonight, but next month we are going to vote on it. I hope you can ……
Everyone talking over each other.
Rob Hare: Until those plans are worked out we don’t know what the set backs are. By the time they get through with there site plan review there may be other things that we have to see, so, going ahead with it next month, as much as we would like to, may be impossible.
Don Cole: Well, I am going to talk to Tim after his vacation. So I will know at the next meeting what we have to do. I’m sorry, but we are going have to do that because of the mess up of North not going there like he should have went.
I just don’t want to see things drag out longer than they have to at this point.
Dennis Suraci: Again I say, we had gotten a letter to you 6 months ago and we said please turn it down and send it back to the Planning Board.
Don Cole: Did you send a notice to them? Planning Board for a referral? No, just the County.
People talking over each other.
Kathy Kiernan: But that was when Laura was here, this came when Laura was here.
Don Cole: There are no letters in the file from the Planning Board.
Dennis Suraci: I will get you a copy.
Everyone talking over each other.
Tim Alred: I talked to everyone in this Town for six months about this and I am outraged that this happened here. And I talked to Roxanne repeatedly, that my time was wasted. All this time and she does not say, oh but it is not before us. I talked to the Building Inspector and all sort of stuff. Now to hear this tonight, something needs to give here. You guys have been excellent all this time, now 7 months that I have been coming to this following something, through the process.
Don Cole: The Chairman was at every meeting.
STEVE MURPHY CASE #03 20 07 02 and
LESLIE SEFF CASE # 03 20 07 03
Don Cole: A decision we want to make transferring that road to that project.
Don Cole: Vic do you want to make a motion first Murphy and then on Seff please?
Vic Barranca I make a motion to grant the Variance I don’t see anything that undesirable I see this as a win win situation for the Town and I make a Motion to Accept it.
A Variance for section 123 - 27 B.
Rob Hare: The other concern that I have is for the property owners in the future that this road is considered as if it were a town road so that all those issues that would have dealt with a town road continues here. Just so that a Building Inspector in the future will look at it and say oh you can put a garage here and you can say no I got the 300 feet of frontage or whatever it is on Timberline Trail. So it will be treated as if it were a Town Road. We need to be a little more specific.
The fact that it is not a private road does not in any way give any Variances over any other post that may apply to it. So this is as if was a Town Road.
Don Cole: With drainage on it, an everything else, it is all going to be put in. The Planning Board waived everything that they had to say about this.
Don Cole: Can I get a second?
Rob Hare: We don’t have anything to second, we need some decent language here. We have to outline this.
ROB HARE MADE A MOTION:
With regard to application of Stephen Murphy and Leslie Seff and a Variance for Section 123-27 B we rule that in regard to Timberline Trail, whereas the road will not meet Town Code and the statue of limitations has expired for the previous owners, and all enjoining property owners, have agreed to a private road, we will allow contructon on Timberline Trail as if it is a Town Road.
VIC BARRANCA SECONDED THE MOTION
Don Cole: All in favor, poll the Board.
Karl Wick I am in favor of the motion I feel it is the best thing we can work out.
Vis Barranca I am in favor, I believe it is a good solution I believe it is a win win situation for the town and all parties involved.
Rob Hare I am voting in favor. I believe it is actually the only answer in this circumstances.
Don Cole I am voting in favor. It is the only way to straighten out a situation that was messed up many years ago. Now it will come to a head and be rectified.
Kathy Kiernan I vote in favor because of the specific language.
Don Cole: Passed both
Don Cole: is there any other business anyone would like to bring up? Can I have
a motion to adjourn
MOTION MADE TO ADJOURN
ALL IN FAVOR