Town of Esopus Zoning Board of Appeals
SEPTEMBER 25, 2007

The meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Esopus was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairman Don Cole.

The Pledge to the Flag followed.

ROLL CALL

Present: Don Cole, Chairman, Karl Wick, Vic Barranca, Rob Hare, Joe Guido and Catherine Charuk.
Absent:  Kathy Kiernan,

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Karl Wick MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN.
Vic Barranca SECONDED.
Joe Guido Abstained
Minutes Approved.

APPROVAL OF VOUCHERS

Vouchers were submitted.

Joe Guido MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VOUCHERS.
Karl Wick SECONDED.
Vouchers Approved.

INFORMATIONAL MEETING SEPTEMBER 25, 2007

08-21-07-02                Kalmus, Leslie                        Use Variance
                             68 Suominens Road

Leslie and Barbara Kalmus were present.

Don Cole asked Mr. and Mrs. Kalmus to explain the reason for a Variance.

Mr. Kalmus stated that they have an existing garage with a living space above it. When they purchased the property is was existing and the previous owner told them it was fine.  It was not completely renovated when they purchased the property, they completed it and received a certificate of occupancy. Recently they wanted to add a bay to the garage, but not touch the living space. At time they were informed by the building department that they were not in compliance. The living space of the structure has not been touched, that it how it was when we purchased the property.  I was under the impression that we could use the space to live in, that was what we were told from the guy that we bought it from.  It turns out that was not true.

Don Cole: Mark Rieker made an inspection and it was approved and you have a certificate of occupancy. Why is this now coming up and not being approved? Is there other work going on at the property that the building inspector noticed?

Leslie Kalmus:  I really don’t know, maybe it was not in compliance.  The amount of space there is 720 some odd feet, and at the time that was constructed I think a separate apartment has a limit of 600 feet so this was not in compliance then. Again we were not aware, until we were told by the Building Dept.  That is basically the story.

Don Cole: Are there any questions from anyone on this?

Karl Wick:  There was a Certificate of Occupancy issued dated October, 2002. It says this is a garage with a recreational room for occasional use. How has the occupancy changed?

Leslie Kalmus:  There is a main house that we demolished and we are replacing. We are temporarily living in this space. It is a temporary issue. We will be out in December.

Don Cole: Will you utilize this for family in the future?       Yes
OK, then that is what this whole thing is about. Now, you are living there until your house is finished.  Will you still utilize any space that you have there?

Rob Hare: From what I understand, from a recreational space it is turning into an accessory apartment. ………

Don Cole: It’s equipped for an apartment for family use because it says in the paperwork here if it goes beyond family use then it is void.

Joe Guido: It is not suppose to go beyond recreation.

Joe Guido: There is enough acreage to support it. Like the guy in New Paltz, the guy with the log house, built the big guest house, but he had plenty of areas.

Don Cole: Yes, like this guy.

Joe Guido:  They said they would agree to no subdivisions on the parcel that it on there.

Rob Hare: A similar situation ……much closer to the house ….40 feet away from the main house.  So it not a question of anyone in that circumstance wanting to draw a line ……..

Don Cole: I would just like it to be settled, we can move forward. Any other questions? 

Karl Wick: Did you buy this house from Todd Schroeder? Yes we did.

Don Cole: Information meeting closed. Moving on to public hearing.

PUBLIC HEARING  SEPTEMBER 25, 2007

08-21-07-01             Chiusano, Gary & Marybeth Area Variance
                                 154 Schryer St, Port Ewen

Gary and Marybeth Chiusano were present.

Don Cole: Any questions (indicating public) for Mr. and Mrs. Chiusano:
               Any questions from the Board on this area variance?

Joe Guido:  For the record, since this is a public hearing, what they want to do is build a garage and it will be 2 ½ feet from the property line and your lot is undersize.  Yes
Does it have to be a 2 car garage?    

Gary Chiusano: Yes, I am getting a little older. It is getting more difficult to clean the cars and it will give us additional parking.

Joe Guido: This is a substantial variance. Has the property been surveyed?  Yes
                You know exactly where the boundary lines are?                  Yes 

Don Cole:   Are there any other questions?

Karl Wick:   I have a comment. The garage is to close to the property line and would be hard to maintain. ………..I……..same thing myself. …….So to be consistent I think it is to close.

Gary Chiusano: The exterior would be basically maintenance free. The overhang on that end will be approximately 6 inches. Gable end.

Don Cole: I don’t like the short distance and the houses are very close together. If we start granting variances like this it will never end. I don’t want to set any precedent. …….Especially there.  You can’t get a car thru there or a fire truck or anything. On the one side going into the parking in the back, is that yours?

Cary Chiusano: No, the parking in the back that is not ours.

Don Cole: We had a nightmare here when Marius tried to put his place in the body shop. With things being to close to the border lines.  Remember? That had to go to the Planning Board. A one car garage or a big one garage would not have that much problem. You know what you went thru. (indicating Karl Wick)  Any other input?

Joe Guido:  I think it is close. Could you move the garage back?

Gary Chiusano: That would be difficult  because the section of the house that we want to attach to has no windows, a solid wall, a one story structure, if we moved it back we would be blocking the rear of the house and if we moved it forward we would be blocking the windows.

Don Cole: The square footage of use of the property.

Karl Wick: Close to 33%.

Don Cole: That is way up there.  That is two negatives.

Gary Chiusano: Before we came up with this idea, we did take a walk around Port Ewen, in our defense we did notice a lot of garages existing like this on property lines.  I was going to bring pictures. I am sure you are all aware, if anybody takes a walk around Port Ewen.

Karl Wick: The character of the neighborhood would change. …..accurate measurements something that we could trust. ……….certainly would help your case. ………….That is one of our concerns we have to look at the change to the character of the neighborhood. ………

Marybeth Chiusano……..I don’t know his name. They are on the other side. ……….

Gary Chiusano:  Roger is right across from us.

Don Cole: When were they put there? Before zoning?

Gary Chiusano:  I don’t know.

Don Cole: If it was before zoning there is no argument.

Gary Chiusano:  Well, I don’t know.

Don Cole: Well, if you are going to come with a different location that are similar to what you want to do, if they are there before zoning……

Gary Chiusano: …..character of the neighborhood. …..as far as zoning I don’t ……..

Catherine Charuk: What is that out building being used for?

Marybeth Chiusano: That was built by my grandfather and originally used for a chicken coop. All we did was clean it up.

Don Cole: Now, that was before zoning.

Gary Chiusano: What kind of side yard numbers are we thinking of? Let’s put it that way.  What would be considered acceptable?

Don Cole: I could live with five to seven feet. Minimum five feet. We have already given variances on five feet right Catherine, so it wouldn’t be an over……..

Joe Guido:  …..right next to it, right next to another house. ………..

Several people talking at the same time.

Gary Chiusano: There will be a garage door on the back side. You can get through with a vehicle. I did not want to cut off my back yard completely so there will be a garage door on the back side. Back yard access obviously …..a fire truck cannot get back there. ……..

Karl Wick: Could you do a one car garage and a car port?

Gary Chiusano: To me that would ruin the character of the house.  I would like to put in something that goes with the character of the house. I am not a big fan of car ports.

Several people talking at one time.

Don Cole: Yes, that is another variance that we would have to go for.

Don Cole: Now, there is another situation, coming that close to another house. Don’t they have to have fire…..

Karl Wick: I brought that up last meeting.

Gary Chiusano:  Yes, the information that I am getting, that is all understood. I  would certainly work……

Don Cole: Well, the Building Inspector would….

Gary Chiusano:  Absolutely.

Don Cole:  The only thing, you don’t want to make a problem……or problems for you in case of a catastrophe and not being able to address it.

Don Cole: So, what to you want to do? Do you want him to try to come back with more information or do you want to make a decision tonight do you want to wait to next month?

Catherine Charuk: I think if the argument is going to be that he is not going to change the character of the neighborhood then we should wait to see photographs. I need to see what is next door, how close this house is to the next one.

Gary Chiusano: The other house is probably about three feet from the property line. She has a porch ………3 feet part of it…….that is on the east side…….

Don Cole: The problem that arises here whether it  effects the neighborhood or not, is a bearing factor because we don’t want to add to a problem that is already there. In a neighborhood with putting houses to close to each other……..

Catherine Charuk: I Understand. …….I want to see………..

Karl Wick:  …….satisfy the Board. ………that should be in the application. Basically, we say yes you can break the law or no you can’t.

Gary Chiusano:  The side yard, I think we have a little negotiation on that. ….two considerations here. Side part of the house that we will cove, I don’t want to get to far……nothing more than that.

Joe Guido: I am not telling you what to do, but just by the feeling that I am getting from the Board if you go for this Variance I don’t think you will get this variance. Maybe you want to come back next month and cut the garage down a little bit, see what you come up with.

Gary Chiusano: If you give us a number we could tell you right now……..we can negotiate  It looks like the side yard setback is the sticky point.

Joe Guido: I don’t know it off the top of my head, and also what I would have you do is put markers in the ground so that I could come over and physically and visually look at it.

Gary Chiusano: At the information meeting I thought you were going to do that. The chain fence is right on the line.

Joe Guido, Don Cole, Karl Wick:  I was there.

Gary Chiusano: Oh great.

Joe Guido: When was the last survey?

Gary Chiusano: 1993 or 1994.

Joe Guido: We just had one with the church and found the survey was off, and they had to come back there again and go through everything all over.

Gary Chiusano: We had the survey done with the addition to the house.  

Don Cole: Are there any other questions?

Karl Wick: Who did the survey?

Marybeth Chiusano: They were actually from Barclay Heights.

Joe Guido: You have copies of the survey.

Gary Chiusano: Yes.

Karl Wick: ………..

Don Cole: Any other questions? See you next month October 16, 2007.

Gary Chiusano: What would you like us to bring?

Joe Guido: Copy of survey, see what the square footage is.

Karl Wick: For myself I would go with the seven I might go with less, I definitely will not go with 2 ½.

Rob Hare: If you could show other garages on your street what the coverage is. In other words the area coverage buildings on those lots, because what happens here is we set presedent, giving you this variance, then the next time down the road, well, and so if you can give us all the information for what you want ……….

Gary Chiusano: OK thank you very much.

Joe Guido made a motion to keep the public hearing open.
Rob Hare seconded the motion.
All in favor.                       Approvel

08-21-07-03                Shah, Dushyant K.                          Area Variance
                             242 River Road, Ulster Park

Don Cole: Is any one here for this application? Does anyone have any questions?

Joe Pryer:  Representative of owner of adjacent property……. We would be against giving the Variance. I brought a copy of our survey. There are a few things going on. There is already a easement on our property, to get to their driveway, to get to the property.

The Board reviewed the survey that Mr. Pryer presented.

Pryer continues: One objection is that we already gave them an easement to get on to their property. This is their house here I don’t know how familiar you are with it.  This is the property that we own. This is the house that we are talking about.  Put the addition on with a 2 car garage in the back. We had to give them an easement to get on to their property to begin with. That is number one.

Don Cole: When did you give them an easement to get onto their property?

Joe Pryer: I guess it was involved with, originally they were further on to our property, they had to move a retaining wall that is down there.

Don Cole: Who owned the property originally, do you know?

Joe Pryer: I don’t know. I can find out for you.

Rob Hare: Which is your property?

Joe Pryer: This piece here.  It is a huge lot that wraps around.

Mr. Brinnier: (Representing Dr. Shah)  The easement is also for this property (indicating map) it is like a shared driveway.

Joe Pryer:   Yes and No. He has his own driveway now. But you can get to his house if you come up your driveway. This house doesn’t have to use the easement. That is one issue.  Another issue is that they already started to encroach by clearing property over here (indicating map).  I have left my card on their house asking them to give us a call about their shed being on our property. We sent them a letter from our attorney asking them to move their shed, or at least to give us a call telling us of their intentions.

Don Cole: When was that shed put there?         

Bill Brinnier:  I have no idea. To the best of my knowledge it was there when the Shah’s purchased the property.

Don Cole: So it was already there. And now it is an issue because there is a new owner. I am just trying to clear the air as far as that is concerned.

Joe Guido: Explain what the Shah’s want to do because this is a public hearing.

William Brinnier:  What the Shah’s are looking to do is add on a garage and a new bedroom suite;  it is a one story with a basement. Modular dwelling. To the north side. We are  looking to add on to the south side. To the north side is a very steep grade that drops off. It is impossible to do anything with that. So we have do it on the south side of the building.  We are looking for a five foot variance to go out 25 feet. The existing drive would come in to a, there would be a garage in front of this addition.

Don Cole: This is it right here, isn’t this it?

Mr. Brinnier: This is what we are trying to do, you have it right here. This portion is the garage, this portion is the new bedroom, laundry, bathroom, and pantry. To put it on this side, as you can see, it drops very steep, it is an incredible steep drop it might be possible to rework something but it would be much more practical especially from the existing layout of the house to put it to this side. (indicating drawing). That is why we are seeking the variance. Mr. Brinnier suggested to Mr. Shah’s to purchase a piece of the adjacent property.

Mr. Pryer suggested that they also try to purchase the easement to the driveway.

Karl Wick: Would that be considered  if they asked to purchase a small piece?
 
Joe Pryer:  As far as I know, I would have to go back to the owner. If that is what you want me to do, is ask them to give you a price on the driveway and this piece of property I would have to check with them. I don’t think we would be able to do that.

Don Cole: That is a separate issue. The issue is the side lot five foot setback on that property.

Joe Pryer: They say a five foot easement but it is really a 25 foot easement.

Several persons talking at the same time.

Joe Pryer: It is a 30 foot setback that you have in your bylaws and he says to take 25 feet out of it. They already started to encroach on the property here (indicating drawing). Once they have five foot, you know, the same thing with the garage.

Don Cole: Did the new owner encroach on that property or was it the previous owner?

Mr. Pryer: I don’t know offf the top of my head.   I don’t think it is this owner, I don’t even think he is living in the house yet.

Mr. Brinnier: No he is not, he just purchased it.

Don Cole: Well you see, what someone else did isn’t what is being done now. We are
dealing with what is one the table now. So what was done before by the previous owner should have been taken care of then.

Rob Hare: This would not have necessarily come up unless a variance was asked for.

Joe Pryer: If you look on your drawing they gave you, it is not even showing that there is a shed in the back.

Don Cole: That is not an issue to us now.

Joe Pryer: OK, I will deal with that.

Don Cole: We cannot talk about issues that are not before us.

There was a discussion on the shed, where it was, if it was encroaching, if it was legal. Also a discussion of the survey and location of buildings on the survey.  

Bill Brinnier: I was assuming that the shed was right here.

Joe Pryer: No it is way back here.

Rob Hare: I was there today. It looked to me like it was right next to the driveway. When I turned around it was something that I kept my eye on so I didn’t back into it.

Bill Brinnier: If that is the case then it means that the drive is improperly shown here. It is further back here.

Karl Wick: It is one or the other.

Joe Guido: This is official?  Who put the building on it?

Bill Brinnier: Whoever did this?

Karl Wick: Where is the surveyor signature? Leo Carol.

Bill Brinnier: June 20, 2007, so it is recent. Very recent.

Joe Guido:  I would question where the survey lines really are? Are they changing ……..

Bill Brinnier: Oh yeah.

Joe Guido:  Well if they are changing, although I can’t understand why ………..they ……… I need you to show me why there are not other alternatives.

Bill Brinnier: It is also a matter of cost to do what you are saying.

Rob Hare: I have looked at it, and I will be very straight forward, it looks to me like a modular home.

Bill Brinnier: It is.

Rob Hare: and, the way that your plan, the best that I can see it is superimposed on that, with a new roof on it, essentially, that modular home that it there now does disappear, if it were my job, I would bring in a crane and get rid of it and start over.

Don Cole:   But, you got the money. 

Rob Hare: But, Don, what I am saying is that this is going to be more expensive, to rebuild what you have there, than it is just sell the existing modular to somebody even at a loss and start over. I mean, guaranteed this is going to be more expensive. You got a clear span across that dining room where there is a wall now.

Bill Brinnier: But if you look at the way it is being done, you have a truss that comes across that is buried in the ceiling because he is not doing a cathedral ceiling.

Rob Hare: It just looks to me like a loss.

Bill Brinnier: If I have my druthers I would convenience them to do just what you said but he does not want to do that.

Don Cole: When I went up and looked the terrain on the property lends itself for this type of construction and the only thing that I can see is giving them a variance for a side lot line.

Rob Hare: Or really encouraging them to speak to this gentleman.

Several persons speaking. 

Bill Brinnier: When did you leave that card on the house?

Joe Pryer: This is going back a couple of months.

Bill Brinnier: We don’t go there very often.

Joe Pryer: The thing is I left one in the front of the house too.

Bill Brinnier: Well, this is ridiculous that this is the front of the house.  And that it the whole idea of the plans to make this the front of the house.  We are looking to go out with a deck here.

Joe Pryer: I see from your plan.

Rob Hare: You have an easement with Scenic Hudson on what area of this (indicating map) the gray area?

Right.

Rob Hare: Scenic Hudson would have to sign off of this one

Karl Wick: What is that triangle?

Joe Pryer: No, that is where they are encroaching.

Karl Wick: So that triangle is part of the conservation easement.

Bill Brinnier: So if we were to purchase that sliver.

Joe Pryer:  I don’t even know if that is going to be on the table.

Bill Brinnier: Right, so that is what we need to find out.

Don Cole: If Scenic Hudson owns it ………………

Joe Pryer: You may very well be right, I am not saying that property is for sale.

Several persons talking.

Joe Guido: He has ….a reasonable way …….to move the lot line and if they didn’t approach you on it well then that is not in your favor. If they approached you and you decide not to sell it then it is their favor, because you tried to do that.

Several people talking.

Don Cole: Next month it is going to be a decision. I would suggest that you get the legal matters settled  because we are going to deal with what is here now. If there is something that can be done more, and it is in agreement with the Dr. and Scenic Hudson.

Joe Guido:  Is the property going to be developed or stay open.

Joe Pryer: But still it devalues our property by them being …….This side here is on the property line. I don’t know how this ever happened. That’s another issue too.

Don Cole: When did Scenic Hudson buy it?

Joe Pryer: I don’t have all the dates off the top of my head. Recently.

Don Cole: Was it after the house was built? Do you know?

Joe Pryer: The house has been there for a while.

Don Cole: So they purchased the property after the house was built.

Joe Pryer: No, no. they do not own the property 100% My Company owns the property and they are in partnership with Scenic Hudson.

Don Cole: Oh ok.

Joe Guido: I want to know why it is not feasible to move the modular, pick it up, move the foundation, do whatever you have to do, because to me 15 feet, well it is 20 foot,  is a substantial variance. This is why there is no other way to do this. I know there is a drop off, but to me I am looking at a modular with all the stuff you are going to be doing putting the garage underneath …..

Don Cole: But Joe, they can’t move the house over.

Joe Guido: Yes, the can.

Don Cole: But who is going to pay for that?

Joe Guido: Don, it is a modular, you pick it up and move it.

Bill Brinnier: The foundation is poured concrete.

Don Cole: Anytime anyone comes on a piece of property, and they want to build something on it they want a variance for the side lot line.

Joe Guido: Right

Don Cole: So, now why are you going to have them change?

Joe Guido: Because, they are building over 5 ft out of 30 that is why.

Don Cole: But, they are entitled to it.

Joe Guido: No, they are not.

Don Cole: They have to come before the Board and get it.

Joe Guido: Right. They are not entitled to it.

Don Cole:  They are entitled to it if we vote on it.

Joe Guido: Right, that is what I am saying.  Where the well is, where the septic is, all come into play with this.

Bill Brinnier: Ok, well we have some work to do.

Joe Pryer: ….or off the back I know it is not convenient. The back is not as bad as the side. The side that you are talking about, the right side of the house, you would not want to build on it. The back you could come up with something else.

Several persons talking at the same time.

Bill Brinnier: October 16th

Don Cole:  Yes, October 16th we will see you then.  

Joe Guido made a motion to keep the public hearing open.
Karl Wick seconded the motion.
All in favor.        Approved.

08-21-07-02             Kalmus, Leslie                        Use Variance
                                 68 Suominens Road

Leslie and Barbara Kalmus were present.

Joe Guido: This is a public hearing please tell us why you are here.

Mr. Kalmus stated there is an existing building with an apartment. There is a Certificate of Occupancy that was granted in 2002 when the building was completed. The C of O was for occasional use. I would like that to be changed to living space.

Joe Guido: When that C of O was granted was the other house up?

Mr. Kalmus Yes.

Joe Guido: Was the C of O on the house or just the garage?

Leslie Kalmus:  Just the garage.

Rob Hare:  It looks like the CO was just on the garage.

Joe Guido: That C of O says for recreational.
 
Karl Wick: It was a recreation room for occasional family use only. If the occupancy changed the C of O will be null and void.

Joe Guido: For the record, what do you plan on doing with that area over the garage?

Leslie Kalmus: That is going to be for family, a guest house.

Barbara Kalmus: Most of the furniture will actually go the other house.  

Joe Guido: You are just going to use it as a guest house.  Not a rental or income?

Barbara Kalmus: We have three daughters, 2 are married, with children,  just for them.

Joe Guido:  How many acres are there?

Leslie Kalmus: The whole property.

Joe Guido:  The one that the house and the, I know that you own the one over the top also too, right.

Leslie Kalmus: 16.2 acres.

Joe Guido: The whole thing is 16.2 acres.

Leslie Kalmus: Yes. Well back where the house is. …..agreed to not break that off and make it smaller.

Several persons talking at the same time.

Don Cole: At present I would not want to see it a life time thing.

Rob Hare: I feel the other way Don. The garage cannot be separated from the house. The house and garage will remain together on a minimum of a 2 acrea lot.

Joe Guido:  …..three acreas only so I would like around….

Don Cole: You can go to 5, and then it is not killing you if you want to do something else.

Rob Hare: We are stepping over the potential…..

Karl Wick:  Yeah, that is what I think

Joe Guido:  How many acres do you feel comfortable with?

Rob Hare: I would stop at 2 because that it what 2 or 3, because that is the maximum

Don Cole: And then he can do whatever he wants.

Several persons talking.

Rob Hare: What would you suggest?

Don Cole: Well with 16 acres it you gave them 2 that would live 14 aces, he could have 14 horses and rent that out for boarding and then you will have to quit work and stay home.

Several persons talking.

Karl Wick: …..if never to used as an income apartment would you agree to that?

Barbara Kalmus: I don’t have a problem with that.

Karl Wick:   …..an accessory apartment, it is a little bit oversize, but I don’t have a problem with that either.

Joe Guido: That is where I differ with you, I would like to see a little bit more than 2 acres like I said, but I feel 2 houses in that area should be an a 6 acre lot, but that is me.

Rob Hare: In terms of going down the road, and say you can’t use this as an accessory apartment, you know, if their financial situation changes and all of a sudden they can’t afford the taxes, which is very possible in this town, they made need it, rather then sell it. 

Several persons talking at this time.

Don Cole: Let me ask you a question.

Joe Guido:  How many are you looking for Carl?

Carl Wick: …….rental is a potential 2 aces is certainly a good size piece, what is the zoning up there now?

Joe Guido:  One acre.  

Karl Wick:  It is a house and apartmen; 2 acres. I think I could live with that.
 
Don Cole:  I will tell you what I would like to see.

Joe Guido :   4 acres.

Karl Wick:  I would be happy with four, I probably would be happy with two.

Don Cole: That is not being reasonable.  You are using this Board to satisfy yourself and we can’t do that. So you are out. Would you like to vote on approving this tonight?

Karl Wick:  I have not seen this, and would not be comfortable voting tonight.

Don Cole:  OK, so that we can get everything squared away. We will have decisional next month.

Joe Guido: I do not have a problem with that. We will have a decisional next month.

Don Cole: Is there any problem with them coming and looking at the property? Will there be some one there?

Leslie Kalmus: There is construction going on so someone is always there. If you want to see the inside of the apartment call and let us know. Cell phone number is 917 209 8664.

Don Cole: A lot of times this is last minute thing.

Barbara Kalmus: Friday is great.

Don Cole: OK, the next meeting will be October 16, 2007.

Barbara Kalmus: And you want us to come back then.

Don Cole:  Yes.

Rob Hare: I make a motion to close the public hearing
Joe Guido: Seconded the motion.
Don Cole: All in favor       Approved

Don Cole: Is there any other business?          None

Don Cole  made a motion that the meeting be adjourned at 8:20 p.m..
Joe Guido second the motion.
All in favor.                      Passes
 

Respectfully submitted,

Nancy Henry