Town of Esopus Zoning Board of Appeals
OCTOBER 16, 2007

The meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals of the Town of Esopus was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairman Don Cole.

The Pledge to the Flag followed.

ROLL CALL

Present: Don Cole, Chairman, Karl Wick, Vic Barranca, Kathy Kiernan, and Catherine Charuk, Rob Hare, Joe Guido

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Rob Hare had comments on the minutes of September, 2007, and proposed that they be more explicit because if adventually someone gets in a argument, or something of this sort, then they really need to know what was recommended. Rather then vague as people made recommendations. Vic Barrance asked how long tapes were kept for. They are usually kept for a year. It is not sufficient if it goes to court.

Don Cole: Asked what that discussion was.  It was about checking into the neighborhood and seeing if anyone else that has a close proximity .

Rob Hare: Yes and what the Board thought would be acceptable. We went back and forth on that.  So it is clear that we talked about a one car garage, 3 feet, or ten feet, or whatever.

Joe Guido: So how can we approve the minutes now unless you know it is in there?

Don Cole: Well, I make a motion we approve the minutes with the corrections.

Joe Gudio: But, you don’t know what the corrections are.

Don Cole: For the next meeting we will see if the corrections are made.

Rob Hare: Yes, they should be made.

Nancy Henry: Do I correct those minutes or do over? Redo September’s minutes.

Amend the minutes and go into more detail.

Nancy Henry: OK

Don Cole: Well, do you want to not approve the minutes.

Joe Gudio: I think we should wait to next meeting to approve minutes. A lot less confussion that way.

Don Cole: Ok next meeting before anybody gets to far is going to be a week earlier which is November 13th instead of the 20th.

APPROVAL OF VOUCHERS

Vouchers were submitted.

JOE GUIDO MADE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VOUCHERS.
VIC BARRANCA SECONDED.
ALL PRESENT VOTED IN FAVOR.            PASSED

PUBLIC HEARING: October 16, 2007

Don Cole: We are opening up the continuation of the Public Hearing.

08-21-07-01           Chiusano, Gary & Marybeth          Area Variance
                                 154 Schryer St, Port Ewen

Don Cole: Is there anyone here from the public that wants to speak?
Is there anything from anyone on the Board with questions? I believe that we were talking about the setback on the one side for the garage. This is the one where the applicant wants the two car garage and there was a 2 foot setback.

Joe Guido: Did you think about making the garage smaller?

Gary Chiusano: Last month you suggested that we come back with an alternate plan. So, the alternate plan is just to make it into a one car garage. And the suggestions made by a couple of members was 6-8 feet side yard. The proposal will be a 7 foot setback on the side.

Don Cole: And that will add how much square footage? What is the length of the garage?

Gary Chiusano: 21 x 16.

Don Cole: What is the square footage? It was 33% at the last meeting and by cutting that it is no longer …….How does the Board feel about this situation?

Joe Guido:  Did you bring pictures in?

Gary Chiusano:  There were concerns about the setbacks and impact on the neighborhood. I tried to take some pictures. This is all within 2 blocks of our home. You can pass them around. They are all pretty close.

Don Cole: You would be infringing  upon the neighborhood by going pretty much the same as what is there. Yes, I can see that.

Rob Hare: My assumption is this garage goes with this house (indicating pictures) and this is the neighbors and it is built right on the line.

Gary Chiusano:  Yes. The neighbors were staring at me when I was taking picures.

Joe Guido: So how close is this to your house?

Gary Chiusano: These are all with 2  blocks. Bayard; across Salem.

Rob Hare:  Again, this is on the line (indicating pictures).

Gary Chiusano: I believe so. I am not really sure.

Rob Hare: But you know, this does not belong to this house.

Gary Chiusano: Yes, obviously.

Joe Guido: Do you know what one of these, if any, of these pictures are within 300 feet or close or next to your house? Which ones would be there?

Gary Chiusano: Real close (indicating picture). That is Mrs. Sturrock that is like adjacent yards to us. That is on Lampman also. 

Catherine Charuk:  Oh, that is the same side as Mrs. Sturrock.

Gary Chiusano: Yes, Our house would be like over here. Bordering on……..

Marybeth Chiusano: That is on the other side of the street from Mrs. Sturrock …..

Gary Chiusano: These are our next door neighbors to the west.   This right across the street from us.

Catherine Charuk: What is this, is this a garage or…..

Marybeth Chiusano: Yes, that is a garage. One of those metal things.

Joe Guido:  Then, this new garage would have the drive thru capability?

Gary Chiusano: Yes, I would like to.

Joe Guido: Have you gone back to the building inspector with these plans.

Gary Chiusano:  No, I haven’t done anything. I assumed I have to settle with you before I went back.

Joe Guido: OK, the only problem is if we do approve it, he might find something else. I just want you to be aware that might happen.

Gary Chiusano: I understand that.  There was some issues about the character of the neighborhood. This is diagonal from us and Barney, is that his name Barney, on the corner of Lampman and 9-W.

Marbeth Chiusano: That is what we see from our back yard.

Gary Chiusano: That is our back window of the house. This is my neighbor. Like I said concerns about impact to the neighborhood, this is just a recent photo a metal shed and that is…….

Joe Guido: We are going on the assumption that these garages are all legal.

Gary Chiusano: I don’t have a clue I mean as far as side yard setbacks, at least in Port Ewen, it looks like the Genie is already out of the bottle. As far as use restrictions, I did not even have a clue about that until it showed up on the Building Inspector’s refusal.

Joe Guido:  Ok, so now your side yard is going to be 7 feet from the property line.  What is the square footage.  The difference, square footage between the original garage and this one.

Karl Wick: I think about 105 less, 31% coverage.

Gary Chiusano: Look this is Bayard and Salmen St. That construction I know is new. And I believe this garage here, I remember seeing that garage going up maybe 10-12 years ago.
That Church is huge.

There was also a questions raised whether the fence is on the property line. I brought a survey map dated 1998 showing the fence is right on the line.

Chatherine Charuck: How far away is the macadam?

Gary Chiusano: About a foot and one half.

Catherine Chruck: It looks like there are plants in there.

Gary Chiusano: Yes, there are plants.  Thee is one picture shooting down Schryver St to the east. I was trying to show numerous garages.

Don Cole: Are there anymore questions? Thoughts on it?

Vic Barranca: I think the applicant came prepared with good examples.

Karl Wick:   …….expanding I think the applicant came well prepared and has come up with a reasonable alternative.

Don Cole: Is there any objection on voting on this tonight?

Joe Guido: The pictures will be kept on file because you guys are going to say character of the neighborhood and you want to have these on file.

Vic Barranca: Just out of curiosity, how long is this kept on file?

Don Cole: They are in the file permanently. It is not destroyed.

Joe Guido: I make a motion we close this case.
Karl Wick:  Seconded the motion.
All in favor.             Passed

Don Cole: Well, let’s make a motion that we are going to vote on this tonight.

Joe Guido: I make the motion to vote on this tonight.
Vic Barranca: Seconded the motion.
Don Cole: All in favor.   Passed

Don Cole: The public hearing is closed for this case.

 
08-21-07-03      Shah, Dushyant K.                          Area Variance
                             242 River Road, Ulster Park

Don Cole:  Variance of Dr Shah.

William Brinnier: Based on your comments at last months meeting we did approach the other party regarding purchasing the right of way and they are in negotiations at this point regarding the right of way as well as the 25 foot extension on the south side of the property. 

Don Cole:  Do you mean 25 feet more?

Bill Brinnier: If they are able to do that there will be no need to appear before the Board.

Don Cole: Exactly, that would go to the Planning Board then.

Bill Brinnier: So they have not reached a conclusion and they are making offers and counteroffers to the best of my knowledge. The Shah’s are away on vacaton right now and I was unable to talk to them today, they are expected back next week.

Don Cole: Who is making the decisions on this property being sold or not being sold?

Joe Pryer: The owners of the property.

Don Cole: So who is the owners of the property?

Joy Pryer:  A company called Lighthouse Bluff LLC

Don Cole: Oh, so it is Scenic Hudson. Is that who is involved in this?

Joe Pryer: Scenic Hudson is not involved in this.

Bill Brinnier: It is my understanding that his client has an agreement with Scenic Hudson. Portions of that property will be forever wild. And part of the 25 feet would buffer,……. that we are looking to purchase remains with it, So I think that is what they are fighting about. …….They are saying we are paying you all this money but,  we cannot do anything with it  basically ……..so can’t we agree on a lower price.

Don Cole: But, the only thing that I am a little bit distributed about the whole situation is that this can go on and on and on and we can make a decision here tonight. In order to get the variance of the seven foot on the one side.

Joe Pryer: 25 foot . Not anywhere near 7 foot.

Don Cole: In other words they are going to take 25 feet there.

Joe Pryer: That is what they want to do is take 25 feet.

Bill Brinnier: There is a 30 foot setback and we are looking for 25 feet into that 30 foot setback.

Don Cole:  So then you would be 7 foot off the property line. Or 5 feet off the property line and we could give a variance for that. It is that very simply. I mean if we wanted to tonight. And move this thing forward because this thing could go on and on . They would say yes, you could say no and it could go on and on and on .

Rob Hare: The nice thing about this is that it is not our problem.  We don’t hear about it again until either we make the variance and we have heard the statements at the point so we can almost skip the essential information and go to a public hearing and possibly do it in one night which is clearly what you would like. Or, it just disappears. Which I think would be a better answer.

Don Cole: But the only thing is, ……….

Joe Guido: I will tell you, I will not grant the variance.

Karl Wick:  Neither would I.

Joe Guido: I mean if you want to poll the Board.

Karl Wick:  It is self-created and it is very very large. I could not grant this.

Don Cole: But you could grant a 4 foot or a 6 foot or a 3 foot.

Karl Wick:  But, not a 25 foot.

Don Cole: But it is not 25 foot, if the hosue was built with 5 feet

Karl Wick: It is a 30 foot buffer right and they are asking to use up to 25 of the 30 feet.

Don Cole: We have done that before with people building houses.

Karl Wick: I have not.

Don Cole: I just hate to see things go on, that is what I don’t like.

Karl Wick:  You buy a piece of property and you should know what the set back are a year later you want a major variance you are asking for a lot.

Joe Pryer: One of the things that he mentions to us is that he never even got a survey of the property when he bought it.

Bill Brinier: He has a survey, I never said that.

Joe Pryer: Not you, but Dr. Shah said that to our office.

Bill Brinnier: They gave me a survey. It was not a survey done by Dr. Shah it was a survey done by the pervious owner.  The guy that built the house.

Joe Pryer: You would think if you were buying a house, you would have a survey done. That is good common practice.

Joe Guido: Don, Usually when you grant a 5 foot variance it is a 10 or 15 feet back but not in a 25 to 30 foot side yard requirement. When you give someone a five foot variance it is usually where it is 15 foot sideyard. Not where it is suppose to be 30 foot.

Don Cole:  Well, I got records back to 1995 and I am going to look into some of the records and check them out. Because I know this can be done.

Bill Brinnier: We are also looking at the possibility of, like you mentioned last month, selling the existing house, having it removed from the foundation and building from scratch. We are looking at that. So far we received one offer and it was a very low price.

Joe Guido: I don’t know how they got it up there in the first place.

Bill Brinier: I think the Shah’s need to reconsider.

Don Cole: I would like to see an agreement as long as everyone is bendful.

Karl Wick:  Hopefully,  everyone is willing to negotiate.

Don Cole: Well there is more than enough property there to give.

Bill Brinnier: Well, if they do make that purchase it makes his clients property that much more valuable. I know they are trying to sell it and not having this thing hanging over them, that is a benefit.

Don Cole: As long as it is not a big inconvenience to everybody involved.

Bill Brinnier: I would request a conveyance and see if we can straighten it out.

Don Cole: Alright we will leave this open.

Joe Guido: I make a motion to keep the public hearing open
Don Cole:  Seconded the motion.
All in Favor     Passed

Don Cole:  Next month it will be on November 13th.

DECISIONAL MEETING

08-21-07-02          Kalmus, Leslie                        Use Variance
                             68 Suominens Road

Don Cole: Leslie and Barbara Kalmus  is there any discussion or question?

Joe Guido: I thought the Board was in favor of granting the Variance. It was just that how many acres we would want it to always remain.

Karl Wick:  In having looked at it close I would have to agree with last month, a larger remaining plot rather then smaller. These buildings are very close together and you can’t divide between them so I prefer something bigger. I go with twice the size for a single family house.

Joe Guido: It would have to be I would say at least that.  That would be one acre more, but I would like to see 4 acres.  How do you feel?

Leslie Kalmus: I think four acres is a little much. Would you want to split it in the middle and make it three? I don’t know what I was thinking about.  How could you split it?............Somewhere it that range.

Karl Wick:  This is a 16 acre parcel.

Joe Guido: That 16 acres does not include the one on top, right.  That is just this parcel.

Karl Wick:  …………bring in fill too. Existing?

Don Cole:  Where is the septic and connection to the house? 

Leslie Kalmus: The septic is …..

Don Cole: OK so if it was granted at two the septic would be plenty on the property and it could be subdivide, or would you need to go to three in order to cover the property with the septic.

Leslie Kalmus: I can’t answer that.  The septic is right here north of the house. Make it three.

Don Cole: That would keep it all legal and far enough away from anybody else in the future.  I think three is best.

Karl Wick: It is only one acre zoning.

Don Cole: Do I have a motion to vote on this or add to it?

Don Cole: Motion to vote on this
Vic Barranca Seconded the motion.
Don Cole: All in favor   Passed

KARL WICK MADE A MOTION TO GRANT A VARIANCE FROM TO 123-13 D (1) ALLOWING AN ACCESSORY APARTMENT IN THIS BUILDING AND A VARIANCE TO SECTION 123-13 (D) 3 ALLOWING SAID APARTMENT TO HAVE A MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE 735 SQUARE FEET. STIPULATIONS WOULD BE THAT SHOULD THIS PROPRTY EVER BE SUB-DIVIDED BOTH BUILDINGS MUST REMAIN ON ONE LOT AND THAT THE LOTS SHALL BE NO SMALLER THAN 3 ACRES.

Catherine Charuk Seconded the motion.

Vic Barranca:           I agree to the Variance approval with a three acres minimum.

Catherine Charuk:          I agree, the accessory apartment is not that much over the
                             required and the acres more than cover the extra space.

Karl Wick:               I agree, I feel the variance is not that substantial. The
                             compromise reached with the applicant is a good
                             compromise for all parties.

Rob Hare:               I vote in favor, it is a minimum increase of square footage
                             for an accessory apartment and the change from recreational
                             use to accessory apartment use is unimportant. It is important
that the two buildings, the house and accessory apartment,
remain together.

Kathy Kiernan:          I agree, for the same reasons.

Joe Guido:              I am in favor of this because it is one acre zoning, and the three
                             acres more than compensates for the extra square footage.

Don Cole:               I vote in favor for all the reasons already specified.

Don Cole:  That will all be sent out to the Building Inspector and to you.

Leslie Kalmus: Does this require Planning Board.

Don Cole: Not that I know of. I don’t think you are before the Planning Board, are you? He did not put you before the Planning Board. You were before us on a Variance.

Rob Hare: If you were actually sub-dividing you would need to go to Planning.

Don Cole: OK now we will vote on Gary and Marybeth Chiusano.

08-21-07-01           Chiusano, Gary & Marybeth          Area Variance
                                 154 Schryer St, Port Ewen

Don Cole: Who wants to make the motion or is there anything else you want to correct or add to.

Catherine Charuk: Well, the request has changed now, right. It has changed from ……

…….   Seven foot set back. One hundred square foot less then original.

Karl Wick. Square footage has gone from 430 to 325.

Joe Guido: What are the measurements of the garage sir? 16  21 attached?

Rob Hare:  16 x 23

Joe Guido: 16 x 21 garage with seven foot side. Still a lot of coverage.

Don Cole:  I think all of the houses on that street have got that. High coverage.

Rob Hare:  That is one of the things that we looked at.  In the new Zoning Ordinance that was one of the things we were looking at changing that. In acres with water and sewer and if you look in Kingston, Kingston is 50% and we were just saying in the area and then we also looked at other New Paltz, Woodstock and the percentage of coverage was low in Port Ewen then the rest of the surrounding.

Don Cole: I think it is in the process of being looked into right now.  They are working on that right now.

Rob Hare: Good, I am glad to hear it. We had meetings for a year and a half or more.

Several persons speaking at once.

Joe Guido: And that is with that shed in the back.

Karl Wick: That is actually not including that.

Several people talking at the same time.

Don Cole:  OK who wants to make a motion?

Joe Guido: One other thing, is it important to anyone else here that you can drive through that garage like he said he was going to.

Don Cole: Well, I tell you that would be a good idea. I think it is more important to him for an access out.

Rob Hare: I think it would be important due to the narrow in passage, that it would be essential.

Don Cole: Convenience to them is more important than anything.

Joe Guido: I just wanted to know if the rest of the Board felt it was worth putting in or not.

Don Cole:  Do you want it put in?

Karl Wick: He can do it anyway.

Catherine Charuk:  But, it doesn’t need to be in there.

Don Cole: I got 20 acres and I have a problem getting into my back yard.

Joe Guido: With a one car garage after 2 years you are going to have a problem getting a lawn mower in it.

Don Cole:  He could go two stories and put junk up on the second floor.

Joe Guido: I know myself I would not have previously approved this so if you are wondering if it was a good idea I think it was a good idea that you cut the size of the garage down.

Gary Chiusano: Yes, we can work with that. My biggest concern is ………………..and get at least one car out of the winter.

Don Cole: It would be cheaper to buy a four wheel drive, then you don’t need a garage, because I don’t have one.

Several people talking at the same time.

Don Cole: OK, let’s make a motion here and move this thing along.

ROB HARE MADE A MOTION FOR A VARIANCE TO ALLOW A SEVEN FOOT SETBACK ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPOSED 16 X 21 FOOT GARAGE AN INCREASE OF LOT COVERAGE TO 31.2% OF THE LOT.

Kathy Kiernan Seconded the motion.

Don Cole:               I agree on the variance. I think it has been covered very well.

Vic Barranca:           I approve the variance, for the revised 7 foot setback. That is 100
                             square foot less than the original application, and for all the reasons
                             that was just mentioned.

Catherine Charuk:          I approve the variance. It is reasonable under the circumstance,
                             consistent with what is already in the area and the owners have
                             reasonable compromised their desires.

Karl Wick:               I approve the variance. It will not compromise the character of the
                             neighborhood it is with keeping the character and somewhat more
                             towards what should be the character of the neighborhood. The owners
                             have been there over 25 years and I don’t believe this is a self-imposed
                             hardship.

Rob Hare:               I am in favor the variance. I believe that it reflects the nature of the
                             neighborhood and the owners showed a willingness to reduce the size of
                             the project to allow better passage on the side.

Kathy Kiernan:          I vote in favor because the applicants did modify their original request.
                             I think seven feet is more consistent with the neighborhood.

Joe Guido:             I am in favor of the variance and because it does not change the character of the neighborhood. The applicant brought in several photos of the         adjoining houses showing it is the way of the land.

Don Cole:  Okay passed.

OTHER BUSINESS

Don Cole:  Is there any other business.

Joe Guido:  Is there anything coming up to complete the rest of our hours.

Several persons talking at same time.

Joe Guido mentioned that he heard on the radio that Spinnenweber has classes for water retention and water run off.

Don Cole said that he would found out what was going on through the County. Joe Guido suggested that maybe someone could come in an give the Board a lecture.  Don Cole will find out what the situation is.

The Zoning Board will be on November 13th, 2007.

JOE GUIDO MADE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
VIC BARRANCA SECOND.
ALL PERSENT VOTED IN FAVOR.

The meeting was adjourned at 8:30 P.M.

Respectfully submitted

Nancy Henry